I’ve been doing jerky similarly ( without the pre heating step ). I haven’t been using cure but I would like to. Usually I just marinate in the overnight and dehydrate at 155-160. After reading many posts on here I think I may try the oven to dehydrator on at least half of my next batch. This is the marinade I use. Hoping for some suggestions on how much cure #1 to add. And should I base it on liquid volume or meat weight. I don’t have a vacuum tumbler.
Recipe as of now:
~4.5lb eye roundRoast sliced across grain about 1/4”
2 cup soy sauce
4 Tbsp wosterschire
2 Tbsp ground black pepper
2 Tbsp granulated garlic
Usually split the marinade and add some different spices/hot sauce etc to play around with flavors.
Sometimes I will just do 1:1 soy sauce and gochujang or siracha and just marinate in that.
I then dehydrate at 155-160 until dried, about 6 hrs
It has always been delicious and so far haven’t gotten sick but it’s easy enough to add cure so would like to start. I always store in the fridge unless it’s in my pocket at work 🙂
@Joe-Hell Yup, be careful with your food and burry anything that needs to be buried. I always go back to the scene in the movie "The Edge" with Anthony Hopkins and the Bear in Alaska where he finds out that Baldwins character didn't burry the bloody rag and then they hear the bear. Now, that doesn't make a ton of sense as the guy is still bleeding all over the place but still!
Does anyone remember tiger mosquitos? I am sure they were a thing like 10 years ago and I am fairly certain I saw one on my dog this weekend and MAN are they big!
@jonathon my first trips to Montana was a high school event to glacier park, various camp sites and Wyoming for Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons. My teacher had lived and/or visited those areas for years. On our first night he described us as human burritos in sleeping bag tortillas. There is a reason why you don’t leave food or any other bear attractant i. Your tent and our in the open. They have lock boxes at the campgrounds for a reason. It sounds like the bear made an initial contact with the bear before they put everything away. You gotta be careful in bear country
@chef state bird here in Upper Michigan. You can hear them on their attack run, sounds like a squadron of Japanese Zeroes armed with kamikaze pilots.
When we are in our environment we are at the the top of the food chain, cross that thin line and the food chain lines begin to blur. But unfortunately the two legged variety is going to cause to most issues.
Guys. This was a very tragic event. Nature is a force to deal with. Education and experience are critical when dealing with dangerous animals. I know I don't mind snakes, as long as I can identify them without a question. I don't play with the poisonous ones. I know nothing about bears, so I wouldn't go camping without someone with experience or until I gathered enough information to feel comfortable.
Now on a bit of the lighter side, Here, in southeast Texas, the biggest predictor we have that can eat us alive are the mosquitoes. They have been know to carry away small calf.
@johnsbrewhouse yup, but a lot of thrash they leave behind you need a hazmat outfit to clean up. Here we have folks that can't pass high school chemistry but know how to shake and bake household and hazardous chemicals to get high.
@gwg8541 That's the biggest problem we have is the two legged kind. Lots of tweakers in the woods since we boarder a National Forest where our property is. We run into their camps all the time, they like to give you cr*p until they see a holster, then they have no idea who you are. If you go back the next day they are gone.
Don't get me wrong, I carry bear spray and a Glock 30 (45cal) when I'm in bear country hiking or camping. After 32 plus years of LE, I'm still more worried about 2 legged animals than any other. That includes sharks also and I SCUBA.
@processhead I agree with you there. The first one I seen in my area was a single, maybe out roaming or part of a spread out pack. My solo encounter with the foot prints were from a mated pair in the area. It was a bit of a distraction because I didn't think there were any in the area and I was out in the field solo doing day and night training. I only found out after I went to talk with the local DNR agent for the post.
@nd-mike I grew up in western MN along ND border, we never had coyotes around when I was young, just red fox. Just started showing up in the central lakes country, west of Detroit Lakes. Told my brothers to shoot on sight, again problem is none of us live in the area any more, although we are all either retired or soon to be so hopefully can spend more time there and try and get rid of the problem.
@nd-mike We have game camera pictures of black bears on our hunting property in MN, just north of Highway 10. Also starting to see coyotes show up, which I don't like and am thinking of trying to call them to get rid of them, only problem is I live in NM and only make it up there once in the summer and then again in Nov. for deer hunting.
@yooperdog I have never crossed paths with a wolf but have seen coyotes and a bobcat while walking my dog along the river near my house. Once mentioned at work I was considering getting a CC permit to carry a gun while walking, they were wondering if I was afraid of people there and I said no, animals. They are used to people and are not afraid of them.
Very unfortunate, but as was pointed out food should have never been in their tents. In Montana humans are not at the top of the food chain in rural areas. I was elk hunting on the Continental Divide between Idaho and Montana. I came across wolf tracks, mountain lion tracks, black bear tracks (claw marks on tree too), and grizzly bear tracks with cub all on the same walk through some timber. Definitely gave me the willies! Grizzly bears are something to be respected and they scare the [censored] put of me!
@jonathon said in [Grizzly Kills woman](/post/41792):
> @Grimpuppy Yes, it was that mix of horror comedy that I like. Somewhat similar, though nowhere near as good as Star Ship Troopers!
I can’t even begin to count how many times I have watched Starship Troopers! Great flick.
I watched Into the Grizzly Maze a while back based on a mention from @Jonathan I believe during a podcast. I have not decided if it was horror or comedy. But definitely not a way I would want to go out.
@jonathon The first time I ran into one in the woods my thoughts were da_n that's a big dog, then realized I had a good mile walk back to my truck at sunset, a bit unnerving as they are singing and visibility is diminishing. I have had one walk in my foot prints when I was out solo doing some solo field ops, less than ten minutes after I came through. You need to keep your head on a swivel and be aware of your surroundings. Most dogs don't stand a chance, but may buy you some time or at least a distraction.
@YooperDog Never had an encounter with a wolve but I have to imagine that is a top tier "oh sh!t" wild experience! A wild wolf that weighs as much as my mastiff is a scary thought, and then think of a pack of them?!
We have a 300+ black bear hanging out here, not really any issues other than knocking down garbage cans and pooping everywhere. Most of the time they just walk away unless you get between a sow and her cubs. Cougars, wolves and 'yotes are around and of the three the first two are the ones I would be concerned about. Bears will take advantage of an easy meal the other two are high end hunters. If you are out camping, hiking, in their environment you need to be aware of your surroundings and do what is smart. Unfortunately there will be sad encounters because of poor decisions and inadvertent interactions.
@cmeans15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfKtH6FCMas If you like Monty Python
@johnsbrewhouse My wife is required to bring her M&P shield with her if she walks the dogs early or late since there have been reports of them around our neighborhood now. It's funny, though I require it of her I don't think she always does it. It's almost like she doesn't take me seriously? Seriously though, I think having a total of 300 lb of fairly aggressive dogs with her is enough protection.
That's why I always carry my 40 when I am at my place in the mountains. We have a cougar and black bear both showing up on the trail cams. The black bear is the least of my worries, it's the cougar we worry with. If it becomes a problem, we'll have to deal with it.
@tex_77 your right. I think a lot of folks are discovering the great outdoors thanks to COVID. Im sure a lot of them get their education from online resources, but lack the experience. I not sure it was the case with her, but as some have mentioned, she was in the bears back yard with food. Tragic
Well being she was in bear country, they should have known better than to have food in thier tents. Tragic, but completely preventable. I don't think I'd be able to go back to sleep like they did knowing a bear was near.
Joe Hell Yup, be careful with your food and burry anything that needs to be buried. I always go back to the scene in the movie “The Edge” with Anthony Hopkins and the Bear in Alaska where he finds out that Baldwins character didn’t burry the bloody rag and then they hear the bear. Now, that doesn’t make a ton of sense as the guy is still bleeding all over the place but still!
Does anyone remember tiger mosquitos? I am sure they were a thing like 10 years ago and I am fairly certain I saw one on my dog this weekend and MAN are they big!
@glen The wife and I rarely go out to eat. We prefer to cook and eat at home; #1, You can cook to your individual taste and use some creativity; #2 the portions are tailored more to our liking and you get left overs! Now don't get me wrong, when we go on vacation or on a road trip we will try an area restaurant upon recommendations from people in the area.
@jamieson22 before you do anything #1 read the booklet thoroughly, #2 before heating it up go to a store and get white oil/mineral oil. It’s in the laxative section in my home Walmart. Coat the rubber/foam seal around the door. Do this before and after each cook….very important. I know your excited but be patient. That’s a lot of money and precision piece of equipment.
-- I use 1/2" dowels cut to 17.5". That was on advice from an Account Executive at ProSmoker who cooks on a PK 100. That's been more than adequate. I managed to catch a sale on hickory dowel, so that was even better.
-- I'd go ahead and cut 5 or 6 dowels, just to be sure. I've only needed 2 for my largest batches (11 lbs when you count in meat and cheese), so 5 probably is good enough. However, it's the sort of situation that you don't want to find out you're one short when you need it.
-- How you want to link your sausage is pretty much up to you. Personally, I just run as long a length as I can and then twist into links. I have been thinking about doing more rope style, though.
-- You'll need to do 2 levels if you want to smoke 25 lbs. at a time.
-- Rotating is not impossible, but it could be difficult. As others mentioned, it might not even be a good idea.
-- There are a couple things you can do to make better use of the bottom of the smoker. First, put in a water pan. That pan is not only good to help with humidity, but it also works as insulation between direct heat from the heating element and drip tray. The other thing to do is take a little extra effort and switch between the 1250 W and 625 W settings (more on that below).
-- Extra Tip #1: Give your PK time to get up to temp. Even though you might get to your target temperature fairly quickly according to the thermometer, it takes more time for every part of it to come up to temperature, even if you only are at 120 F for drying. Give it a good 15-30 minutes after you hit that initial setpoint, and you'll see flatter temperature swings and a more consistent cook. I use a separate thermometer in the cooker (for a few reasons), and I see the difference between it and the PK thermometer start out fairly far apart at first but then get pretty dadgum close after 20 minutes or so of hitting the initial setpoint.
-- Extra Tip #2: Switch between 625 W and 1250 W as appropriate. 1250 W is great for when you first turn on the cooker and are trying heating it all up, but leaving it on there leads to larger temperature swings (the overshoot is greater when set on 1250 W). I'm good having it on 1250 W when raising the temperature 10 degrees F or more, but I switch it back to 625 W when I'm around 5 degrees F from my setpoint. That's done a LOT to flatten out the swings. There always will be swings because that's how electrical cookers work, but it's nice to flatten them out a bit. I might even just leave it on 625 W if I am not in a hurry and doing something semi-dried (like Summer sausage), as long as the weather lets me (not cold and windy). It's a little more work and a little more time, but I like what I'm getting for that effort.
-- Extra Tip #3: Get a remote thermometer so you can see what's going on while you're away from the cooker. You don't need it, but you'll like it. I use my Thermoworks Signals.
-- Extra Tip #4: As already mentioned, you won't need or want smoke going all the time. 90-120 minutes likely is plenty. While you might want a little more (for something REALLY smoky), you might even want less (matter of taste). In any case, you don't want 5 hours of smoke. The smoke you get from sawdust and in the PK is pretty potent stuff. I actually measure smoke more in how much I put in the bowl instead by time. A full bowl is plenty, but I suppose that also can depend on what you put in there (I usually use a mix of oak, mesquite, and cherry). (On that, the 40 lb. bags are going to last you quite a while!)
Another thing, keep in mind that a "25# batch" of sausage is more than 25 lbs., especially if you are adding cheese. I expect you'll need to split your batch for smoking. If you have the freezer space (and I hope you do, since you're making all that sausage), you also could put some of that pork butt in the freezer and come back to it (go ahead and cube it up for grinding, if you want).
The Swiss and cheddar cheese are quite good, but the ghost pepper cheese is amazing for those that like it spicy (it's not as hot as "ghost pepper" suggests, but it still has plenty of kick).
@herbcofood interested in learning what a buck stick is? With the seasoning and mix ratio im sure its nothing more than what we call a snack stick or landjaeger. What is the diameter of your buck sticks? I make mine at 19mm. My favorite top 4 flavors is.....
#1 Bourbon Peppercorn
Current smoker is the Pro Smoker 100SS 240 volt electric
@processhead Paul, here is the recipe I just made. It is very mild and the wife even likes it. I added Cheddar just for her since she like Cheddar Wursts.
3 Lbs. 85/15 ground beef
2 lbs. ground pork 75-80/20
1 tsp Cure #1 (since mine are being smoked)
2 tsp white pepper
2 tsp ground mustard (1tsp regular and 1 tsp Dijon)
2 tsp Marjoram
1 tsp roasted garlic granules
1 tsp ground sage
1 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp ginger
1 tsp mace
5 tsp Kosher Salt
T TBSP + 1 tsp Sure Gel
1/2 cup cold water
1 1/2 TBSP Dextrose
2 eggs or 1/2 cup liquid eggs
I've got a great frankfurter recipe that I can share with you and it has a salt content of 1.46% by weight. What I would recommend is to make a few batches and continue reducing the salt content until your happy with it
2000g meat + 400g water and 35g of salt+cure => 1.46% Salt
Hey mrobisr.. Thanks for the response.. Thats what I was looking for.. It makes sense to use a cure with the hot dogs, I agree.. As far as Star San, I’m very familiar. I also homebrew beer.. I’ll be giving it a shot soon and will maybe post some results.. Thank you guys for the info.. Have a great day!
@turbo26 use sheep casings or the skinless cellulose that is up to you, you wash and soak the salt out of the sheep casings you don't eat them as is, so that won't be a problem. As far as the cure you only add one teaspoon per 5 lbs meat, so i don't see how that would get you too much sodium. Since hotdogs are ground into a emulsified meat paste I would never make one without a cure nor recommend it. The process of grinding meat that fine introduces too much bacteria not to have a cure, doing it without the salt is risky enough. You will have to smoke at a higher than desired temperature to get out of the danger zone quickly and that will not yield a good product. With that being said you really will want to add liquid smoke and boil the dogs in a water bath instead of naturally smoking them and freezing soon afterwards.
In the end the real problem with ground meat and low sodium comes down to food safety. There are many homemade recipes online just start with one and add and delete spices and salt as you like. Keep the meat as cold as possible work quickly and freeze the product as quickly as possible and you should be able to make yourself a decent dog with a little experimentation.
Hey Craig.. Thanks for responding.. Most of the DIY recipes I have seen use sheep casings.. Which are packed in salt.. I was happy to see the cellulose casings from Watsons, which led me here.. I’m just curious if you would have to cure the meat.. Which would lead to less sodium.. I would definitely smoke them.. I wouldn’t make a lot at one time, just maybe a dozen or two, and individually freeze them to use as needed. And of course, substitute the “No Salt” blend for the salt in a recipe.. Im sure it would take some tweaking to get a good product, but I can’t imagine going without a good hotdog the rest of my life and not feeling guilty about it.. 😂
this is a subject that I should pay attention to as I have problems in that area also ,wantons has hotdog & bologna seasoning not sure what the end levels of the sodium are Johnothan may be able to give you an answer or info for the process
I wet brine mine for 10 days to 2 weeks in a solution of, 3/4 cup kosher salt, 1 cup dark brown sugar and a well rounded tablespoon of #1 cure per gallon of pure water. Seal lid and keep it in the refer so the temps are 34 to 39 degrees.
Remove and light rinse and let them lay open in the fridge for a day or two.
Hang in smoker and light a maze tray and cold smoke for 6 to 8 hours each and rest in the refer over night only to repete 2 to 3 times.
Last time smoke at 160 to 180 till the IT is 135/140. Remove and refrigerate for 24 hours then slice and vac into portion sizes.
We fry ours lower temps and slower. Very little pop and cracking to none at all, almost no need for a splatter screen.
Each batch is getting better than the last. The last one was awesome!
What's your next Meat Project?
You ask, humm,, me thinks mes gots more than one. TE He,he.
First of all things that I've never done before.
1, Turn a pork butt into a cured ham like one I get in Little Falls MN,
2, Sliced fresh netted ham, I've only done one 40 years ago,
3, Breaded and fried deer heart, (ok, not a smoked item but still,,,)
Second things that are still in the works to do better,
1, Everything I've done before!
2, Deer bacon to taste more like bacon and to have a large chunk with smaller filler within the slice with great bacon smokey flavor
3, Deer summer sausage to compliment the SS w/ smoked pepper cheese that I already do that seems to be #1 for most all of my friends
4, Deer meat sticks that have a juicy smoky flavor with cheddar cheese and a great fresh snap when they are bit into.
Ok, enough for now.
Just recently started curing bacon myself. The way I do it is pretty simple but I’m sure it’s definitely not the best recipe out there.
pork belly cut in half or thirds
Dry rub with:
Cure #1 0.25%
There is actually a calculator app that makes it pretty simple
Seal in vac bag
Place in tub turn daily for 10 days
Remove from bag ( rinse if desired )
Leave open in fridge to form pellicle for 24-48 hrs
Smoke ( I use an MES )
1:1 JD bourbon barrel and apple wood chips
200 for about 3 hrs til internal 150
Let cool to room temp then wrap and let sit overnight or at least 4 hrs.
Like I said, this is how I do it but I’m sure there are better ways out there. Open to suggestions, critiques, etc.
@HerbcoFood *IF* they go on sale again! I swear my grocery bill is my #1 expense right now. Thank god it has been raining here so I can't go out and do a bunch of my other hobbies or I'd be broke and even further behind at work!
Starting out at 201! Holy Cow! I'm sure you can handle the 26 lbs., Jon. It's a one-day-at-a-time thing. I haven't weighed that since I was a tackle on the eighth grade football team. I'm more in line with Joe Hell. I weighed in at 354 last June. 261 this morning. Down 93 lbs. in 11 months. I weigh every day. It's the #1 priority of my entire day, every day. My method is simple. I got the idea from my sister, who had bariatric surgery. It forced her to eat very small amounts of food, many times a day. I figured I could do that, without having the pain and expense of surgery. I eat 100 calories/hr., every hour, from the time I get up till 7 pm. Anything I want. Turns out, 1 ounce of beef jerky is about 100 calories. Yum. I don't eat to may sweets, mostly because 100 calories is usually not much volume. Lots and lots of foods are packaged in 100 calorie portions. This is all partly why you guys are driving me crazy with your pictures and descriptions of fantastic meat products. Good news is, they can all be cut into 100 calorie portions! I'm in, on the weekly check-in!
@papasop i do know how to select a thumb vote but i cant do both. Wanted to give a thumbs up for saying Bourbon Peppercorn is great, thumbs down because you said Willies is still your #1....lol. All in fun ofcourse
The bourbon peppercorn is quite tasty. There is a flavor profile there that I'm not picking up on (old taste buds ). Will keep sampling. It's also the only one of the three I'll have around for personal use. The maple bacon is to sweet for me and the taco is just that, taco.
As I said the kids will love these. I'll still take the Willie's as #1.
Well you know you won't be sitting if it's posterior. Hopefully it's anterior. I know # 2 knee was better and faster healing than #1. They over medicated me with the first one. Wishing you the best though, surgery is not our friend as we age. I still need another fusion, but holding out for a better procedure.
@lkrfletcher I just picked up some H110C for the heat and some Holly Regular for the medium country taste with sage. Hope to be making some up here in a couple of weeks. I believe the Holly is Walton's #1 seller for breakfast sausage.
So i have done a little searching not alot, only on my phone and not desktop. I have read, which is what i suspected is a little bit of personal preference and opinions. Some say no need to clean and just brush loose stuff off as they admit will get flakes of creosote on the food. However, majority of articles are saying yes a clean smoker is beneficial in the taste and final look of the product. When talking about seasoning, they say it does two things. #1 It rids of any contamination such as oils from the manufacturing process. And #2 it puts a layer of creosote on the walls to keep it from rusting. If you have a Stainless Steel unit then that is not an issue. Several articles go on to say about drippage from excess creosote material in cabin on food as well as giving too much creosote on food turning it black can actually make your tongue numb as well as have a very bitter taste. So the question is "bark", when is enough to achieve what you want. I feel that you dont need to strive for a heavy black "bark" to get a smokey taste, infact i think its too much. I will keep on my search, i really want to find out the scientific evidence supporting clean and maintaining vs leaving the build up. I will also add, creosote is very flammable at a certain point.
@nolannn said in [how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released](/post/36472):
> I guess it seems to be the cure is at work first, even tough it was recently added to the meat.
> Maybe the ECA comes in second at 130-140 degrees to rob the bad guys of any energy they have left?
> Is that right?
ECA works as a cure accelerant, so it makes the cure release nitrous oxide faster than the cure would just on its own.
Many sources say its fine to use cure #1 powder in sausage, stuff and smoke right away. Others will say to hold it overnight
The citric acid in ECA does lower the pH of the meat and inhibits bacterial growth.
Yes it can work, sort of, but there are limitations. Roaster ovens don't have precise temperature control, but if your ambient conditions are relatively consistent (as in a kitchen in a normally climate controlled home) you should be able to to dial them in to reasonable precision. Way less than an immersion circulator, but maybe enough for the purpose. But another problem is that, unlike an immersion circulator that keeps the water moving, the water will be still in the roaster oven. This will slow the heating effect, and make it possible that the product closer to the heated surface will be exposed to higher heat than the product farther from the heated surface. Again, these differences may be tolerable.
A roaster oven powered though a PID (I use an Auber) is my #1 go-to tool for making stock, because it is safe, stable and high volume (mine is 22qts). But I think that an immersion circulator is a better way to go if you're trying to do a sous vide cook.
I'll have to agree with @twilliams on the Reuben Brats. A bit less than I expected. But then again I've been searching for the perfect Reuben sandwich for 35+ years.
@twilliams . Have never added shrooms to anything but curious to see what ideas come up here.
BTW.. I'm very close to a #1 on the sandwich. It's even local.
Thanks! If it hadn't been so long since I've harvested a turkey (too many unsuccessful trips... harvest totals seem down and I don't have much time to dedicate to scouting anymore), I would have pre-ordered some of Walton's turkey cure to try out. Maybe another time. And I have used Morton Tender Quick in the past, but I haven't seen that in stores around here for many years. So after referencing a few other recipes and a cure calculator, here's what I'm trying:
* 2 boneless, skinless turkey breasts (3 lb 5 oz of meat)
* 2 quarts cold water
* 1/2 cup kosher salt
* 1/2 cup brown sugar
* 1 Tbsp poultry seasoning
* 1 1/2 tsp cure #1 (Sure Cure)
I'll probably brine for 4-5 days, and then soak in fresh water for an hour like you're saying. I'll tie 'em up and smoke them. I'll check back in with my results.
@Seanlee-Hardy said in [Jerky Chemistry](/post/33584):
> Hi Everyone!
> I am lucky to find this website and learning a lot from you guys.
> I saw from jerky packaging and find there is term "maltodextrin" and when i research about it, the term maltodextrin is used for water holding capacity as it is hygrocospic.
> Is the effect the same as using glycerin / glycerol?
> There are also bunch of chemicals i want to discuss with you guys including :
> 1. sodium nitrate vs sodium nitrite vs celery powder
> 2. dextrose
> 3. maltodextrin vs glycerin / glycerol
> 4. (not really chemical) i want to find a good smoker for entry commercial level what would be good for it? I am from Indonesia so buying from amazon is crazy stuff and hopefully i get the product good without any need of manufacture defect. Just to be clear : 1 MB digital wood pellet smoker 30" MB is $200 but shipping and custom in Indonesia require around $350!!!
> Hopefully we can discuss a lot in this forum and learn from each other!!
1. sodium nitrate vs sodium nitrite vs celery powder are all considered preservatives, or cures, for meat products.
Sodium nitrate is used for slow dry-curing of uncooked meat products like traditional salami. Sodium nitrate slowly converts to sodium nitrite during the dry curing process. Cure # 2 powder is what would be used when sodium nitrate is needed in processing.
Sodium nitrite is a fast acting cure that is used in the majority of cooked meat processing. Cure #1 powder is what would be used when sodium nitrite is needed in processing.
Celery powder is just a natural source for sodium nitrite that is chemically identical to synthetic sources of the sodium nitrite.
Dextrose aka glucose is just a type of simple sugar that is an additive in many processed foods for flavoring or sometimes as a nutrition source for helpful bacteria in processed foods.
maltodextrin vs glycerin / glycerol
3.Maltodextrin and glycerin are both additives that work as coatings on processed foods. They do attract and hold moisture and change the texture of foods, making them somewhat "juicier" or "stickier".
You will get a lot of opinions on smokers here. I can't really speak from personal experience since both of my sausage smokers are home-made.
What ever smoker you get, make sure it has the capability to smoke at low temperatures used for sausage and cured meat processing. Some smokers for smoking/cooking barbeque are intended for higher temperatures and don't have the control range to work well for cured processed meats.
@PapaSop just made the fajita and ranch last weekend, i love them. Bourbon Peppercorn is my favorite. Like @Jonathon said the ranch has very little ranch flavor, you might get a slight hint of it at the beginning or end of bite.
My top 4 are #1 Bourbon peppercorn #2 Fajita, #3 Ranch and #4 Willies. Cant taste any ECA in it. The top 3 mentioned are perfect for kids and adults that dont like hot or spicy
Holy moly thats a lot more responses than I thought we would get on this. Okay, so Nacho Cheese is going to be ordered and stocked for sure as I see that as by far and away the #1. Then Sweet Chili should also be brought in from the looks of things. My only problem with the other two is that they are very similar to things we have already tried or currently do stock, so I think we will get samples of those, I will make them and then we can make the decision on bringing them in or not.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinion!
ButcherBrown In my opinion the PK100 is about as good as it is possible to get with this size smoker, I have done hams and bacon, ribs and pork butts in it and it the color and smoke flavor are on the same level as the big commercial smokehouse. Now, it is not without issues, the price is pretty high and you can only use sawdust in it but that’s about it, other than that the insulation is amazing, the heat wave is very reasonable compare to other smokers and the vents system adds some good versatlity. Also, we never use the lower watt setting.
@Bruce-0 my first two things that come to mind is #1 if you didnt ice bath them directly after internal temp was reached.
#2 you packaged them wet
Or # 3 you had some fat out and fat get between the casing and meat
@Phantom i will add my list of no heat favorites
#1 favorite= bourbon peppercorn
Sweet maple bacon
Willies is a very good stick but does have a little heat. I would say my #2 favorite but couldnt put in my list since it had heat
geo315 There is a button at the top of the page next to the Facebook and Twitter buttons that will allow you to print this out. Or you can also just hit control+p on a PC and it should do the same thing.
@Robertdochler said in [Bacon mistake Instacure \#2 used instead of Instacure \#1](/post/31832):
> Good morning, I am making home made bacon from a pork belly. I used 1 teaspoon of instacure #2 per 5 lbs of meat in my dry rub. After 48 hours of brining the belly, I discovered through research that I should have used Instacure #1 for bacon and Instacure #2 is for dry curing such as salami etc. I immediately removed my pork belly from the refrigerator and rinsed the dry cure from the belly. I made a new dry rub just using salt and sugar and no pink cure at all. I am planning to stop brining the belly on Saturday which is day 6 of brining and smoking on Sunday. If I hot smoke this belly after 6 days in the brine will it be safe to eat after being exposed to the instacure #2 for two days? Thanks for any help.
Cure #1 and Cure # 2 are very close in composition with one exception, Cure # 2 also has additional Sodium nitrate.
I would expect you obtained at least partial curing of the belly in the first couple of days in the Cure #2 rub.
My only concern would be whether you exceeded the permissible levels of total sodium nitrite with the second addition of Cure # 1 rub.
Some one else may have some input on that potential issue.
Cure #1 and Cure #2 Composition
Preservative: E250 6% (Sodium Nitrite)
Preservatives: E250 (5.7%) (Sodium Nitrite), E251 (3.6%) (Sodium Nitrate)
@Clarko said in [MILD snack sticks](/post/31752):
> Has anyone increased the amount of meat to seasoning with the Willies to tone them down?
To your question about just using less spice (adding more meat) to tone down the heat.
Yes, it is possible to do that, but remember, there will be relatively less salt and other seasonings if you do that. The stick will have less heat, but it may also taste kind of bland without as much salt.
IF you happen to find a seasoning that is too salty AND too spicy for your taste, then go for it and add less.
Remember to still use the recommend quantity of Cure #1 for the weight of your meat block.
As the guys mentioned , you may find another seasoning you like better and eliminate the need to make adjustments.
MichealJ, There are no absolutes in my life😉 If smoking, cure #1 is in order. That being said there are at least "10" Poland- Russian based reginal polish recipes. As i recall it was around 1950 that Europe standardized their sausage recipes, after the war, with little refrigeration, and a seasoning shortages Butchers were required to meet the state mandated recipes because all were not honest brokers. Also in the Poland / Russia / East Germany countries, boundaries changed on a daily basis. You are not wrong, just consider a recipe is the way you want you sausage to taste as you remember it...... Won't even open the book on Bratwursts.. Micheal J, it would be laughable if you were my brother , and just joined the Blog. He's in Idaho, I'm in Ok..... Cheers😎
John Belvedere I quite literally cannot WAIT for you to listen to our podcast that will be out next Monday. Many, many good laughs should be had on something that happened that ties to this post! The lack of product loss is shocking, thats as good as I do with what I assume is better equipment, so well done there for sure. I am thinking your 60 minute tumble the next day helped with that. Also, really nice and thorough write-up of your process. This deserves a tip of the hat!
This is the old traditional recipe. 3'8" grind, 32mm casings, 12" links... cure #1 if you smoke 😎
There are other seasonings but this the base for original Polish sausage
Elsos Yeah, what you are describing in your initial post sounds like the vinegar from something in that can. The lowered pH is going to denature the proteins and prevent them from effectively binding together. I added some pickled jalapenos to a batch of willies once and to prevent what happened to you I laid them all out on a screen and let them air dry for 2 hours. That seems to be long enough to dry the outside of the jalapeno slices but it still maintains some of the taste.
@craigrice For sure, my all time #1 is [Walton's Ultimate Steak and Roast](https://www.waltonsinc.com/waltons-ultimate-seasoning) for steaks, also good on chicken and nice to add to a salad. My other top 3 Excalibur shakers are ALL DISCONTINUED. I can only imagine they did that as a personal attack on me. Anything from Eat BBQ like [Zero to hero](https://www.waltonsinc.com/eat-barbecue-zero-to-hero-sweet-rub) is a great all around BBQ rub. JPs Custom Sweat Heat is awesome on Chicken and Pork. Most things from Kosmos are also really really good.
Oh and Oakridge is really good too but they are a little pricey. One of our IT guys has a serious love for the Mississippi Grind. Bash Brothers and Butcher BBQ are mostly good too.
I just finished doing 77# of top round for various cuts of corn beef. I however do the EQ method of curing. I cut each primal into 3 pieces, trim heavy suet, which still left 6# plus pieces. I do 2.25% salt, 0.25% #1 cure, Coriander-Ground 0.07%, Mustard Seed-Ground 0.02%, Pepper-Black Coarse 0.40%, Cinnamon-Ground 0.07%, Cloves-Ground 0.02%. Vac seal and allow to cure a minimum of 3 days per pound. The nice thing about EQ curing is you will never over salt, no matter how long you leave it in the vac bag..
Background: Made garlic venison sausage using 25 mm cellulose casing. Mixed 2 to 1 ration of venison and hog jowls. I just added a garlic season mix and #1 pink salt. The plan was to smoke. First time user of cellulose casing. Stuffing went great and tied sections off with butchers twine. Had on blowout for 10# of meat. Just tied twine on both sides of blowout. Now the findings and need help. First thing I noticed after smoking for about an hour was the cases were full of liquid. I assume was melted fat. Then can the 2nd problem was how to measure meat temperature when using cellulose casings. What I did was to poke thru the casing to get temp. Well you can guess where all that liquid went. Right out that hole. So my thoughts that if I added a binder it should help with liquid. Assuming cooked to right temp. 2nd would be to make one link of sausage and tie my probe into link. Probe is designed to monitor meat. So I am open to others suggestions on a better way to use cellulose casing to reduce liquid in casing and measure meat during smoking. And oh by the way they turned out to be a snack stick size, quit taste but will break real easily. Help
twilliams Yeah and the best sellers are best sellers for a reason. No PSS is going to outsell Holly (medium #1 ) , no brat is going to outsell Blue Ribbon (though the gap has closed) and no snack stick is going to outsell Willies. Though, it will be interesting to see if Bourbon gets a bump from this post!
@YooperDog in my belief it will become the new #1 seller over willies. I will be doing willies and bourbon peppercorn again in a couple weeks. Will have to do a side by side comparison. However i couldnt really taste much bourbon
Chef , I appreciate your comments, and clarity. Breaking down a recipe isn’t that hard . This site: https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-making and his book: Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages Paperback – Illustrated, March 21, 2012 is a great read. It does break down the norms and tolerances for spices and seasonings (2-3pgs of listings). The site is international and covers just about everything meat, and alcohol 😊 Lots, and Lots of whys, not so much how to’s. The spirit of the author is to teach you how to make sausage not read recipes, but the wisdom to spot a good or bad recipe, and why to use metric, not imperial. Rytek Kutas’ auto-bio is a great read as he walks you thru the failures and successes of a sausage maker and how he acquired his recipes throughout his life. Culminating in his efforts for the Sausagemaker business. Sad ending. When I visit the East coast I make 50lbs of brats for their taste, For what they think brats taste like. When i travel to the Left Coast i retool my polish sausage for what they think is a traditional Kielbasa taste… When it comes to Bulgogi, I take into consideration what region of South East Asia they’re from. It is what it is… Cheers 😎
PS: I an not responsible for my computer’s grammar or spelling errors😉
It's my understanding that cure #1 doesn't activate till smoking / cooking. Protects the meat from bacteria growth during slow or cold smoking. Flash grilling / smoking does not require it, but does enhance the color to pink instead of gray during cooking. Cure#2 is necessary for fermented product only. It enhances good bat growth during the fermentation. I always mix with water first, but add cheese last (frozen). Just my opine😎