Seasoning



  • I’m going to make #25 summer with Tons seasoning and noticed it contains Sodium Erythorbate is this going to cause issues with the ECA that I was going to add??


  • Admin

    @blackbetty61
    No issues. You can still use encapsulated Citric acid and you will be fine.



  • @austin
    Thanks for the reply. One other quick question would I need to adjust my sure cure amount or still use 1oz for #25
    Thanks
    I love Meatgistics there is a ton of good info here. Keep up the excellent work


  • Admin

    @blackbetty61 No changes on the sure cure usage. Always use the 1 oz per 25 lb usage level.

    Thanks for the compliment on Meatgistics!
    Good luck on making stuff!



  • @blackbetty61 im sure you know this but to make sure do not hold it overnight. As soon as you stuff it go right in the smoker! You got two cure accelerators in there!



  • @lamurscrappy
    Yep right to the smoker…I was just thrown off when I seen the Sodium Erythorbate as one of the ingredients in the seasoning. Haven’t used Tons seasoning before hope it has good flavor
    Thanks



  • @blackbetty61 i personally dont think pre packaged seasonings should have erthorbate in them. I always add it to my stuff but if you dont know its there it can cause problems! Let us know how it turns out!



  • @lamurscrappy
    We have never used Sodium Erythorbate so I wasn’t sure if you could mix it with critic acid. Will hopefully post pics in a couple weeks when we make sausage



  • @blackbetty61 sodium erthorbate is a god sent. For us its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have used citric acid but i personally dont like it and dont use it in any of my stuff. Its too over powering and makes everything too tangy and taste the same as everything else out there. I like to taste the salts, peppers, jalapenos, garlics, etc and to me the acid drowns out those flavors. Sodium erthorbate allows for quicker production, makes the product look better, stores longer, and looks much better longer… especially homeade bacon. Its a great additive, one of my favorates next to trehalose!



  • @lamurscrappy
    So let’s say that I was to leave out the critic acid. Could i smoke it right away and not hold it overnight? And would it be a problem if I did hold it overnight? I agree with the tangy taste sometimes being over powering. The package says 1.49% Sodium Erythorbate but that is a #100 package so I divided it into 4 for my #25 batch.



  • @blackbetty61 absolutly you can smoke it directly after stuffing and get it smoked up with that erthorbate and you will end up with a better product then no erthorbate holding overnight!
    As far as holding overnight i cant fully say yes or no on that. I have never used erthorbate and waited over night to smoke it so i cant say the outcome of it. I personally dont see it causing too much harm if you waited until the next morning. Probably just be a lot redder in color… if you used citric acid and held overnight it would essentially burn and destroy the meat making a very dry nasty product… so never hold with citric acid but i think you would be ok wigh erthorbate but i cant be 100% sure… you got any thoughts on that jonathan?


  • Walton's Employee

    @blackbetty61 That is one major advantage of Sodium Erythorbate over Citric Acid, if you want to go right to the smoker you can with either but if something happens and you have to hold it overnight you won’t have any issues with the Sodium Erythorbate where you often will with Citric Acid.

    The mechanism behind the Citric Acid making everything dry and nasty is that it is denaturing the proteins once that cottonseed oil breaks and releases the acid into the meat. If you ever want to see an example of what this does to your protein extraction, use a pestle and break the ECA first and then add it to meat and try to get protein extraction. Doesn’t matter how cold the meat is or how long you mix it the citric acid will make that impossible as it is denaturing the proteins as they are extracting.


  • Walton's Employee

    @blackbetty61 Also, I can’t read your username on here without going “bambalam” out loud!



  • @jonathon
    LOL



  • @jonathon that was my thoughts as well i just dont like giving the advise if i havent tried it personally. Hopefully we are helping you out bamalam blackbetty and not confusing you! 🙂





  • Love some of the above info. I’m newer to this. Tried 25# summer sausage the other day with Citric Acid. Did not care for the tangy taste at all. Was way too powerful especially for summer sausage in my opinion. Was gonna cut it in 1/2 when I make snack sticks next as figured some tang would be ok with them, but was unsure if be enough “cure accelerator” in it. So sounds like I can make the difference up with Sodium Erythorbate and be ok to smoke immediately or next day in case something arises. Can also cut it out completely in the summer sausage and add the Sodium Erythorbate.



  • @yardapes11 I think if you even put half the amount of citric acid in you should smoke them right away or you might run the risk of the acid breaking if you leave it overnight…not 100% sure but that’s my guess



  • Thanks blackbetty. Guess I meant if I cut out the citric acid completely I can wait on the smoking part. Did read about the need for smoking immediately if using the citric acid at all. Also , just a question but why would some seasonings (Ton’s as you mentioned) contain the Sodium Erythorbate and none of the others do. Is there enough of the Sodium Erythorbate in the Ton’s that you don’t have to add any more to it?? Sounds like a good seasoning I was gonna try.



  • @yardapes11 I’m not sure bout that but it’s a good question maybe @Austin or @Jonathon can answer that… I’d like to know that too


  • Walton's Employee

    @blackbetty61 @Yardapes11 Ton’s Summer is usually one that is purchased by commercial processors, hence it only being available in batches large enough to do 100 lb and already containing a cure accelerator. So, if you are using Ton’s Summer Unit then you do not need to add any other cure accelerator as it is already mixed in.

    Since there seems to be some increased interest from retail customers on this seasoning I am updating the online description with this information. Thanks!



  • Thanks for your quick response Jonathon!! (and Blackbetty) That pretty much explains it! Can’t wait to try it.



  • @Jonathon. You been big help so far. One more for you. As we discussed Sodium Erythorbate earlier. I also looking through recipes. Was going to make smoked Kielbasa as well. It says to add “Smoked meat stabilizer”. Looks like it is just another type of accelerator. I am sure alot of these do the same thing and I don’t want to order everything under the sun. My guess is they are somewhat interchangeable. The Sodium Erythorbate probably gives the added red color which isn’t really necessary in the Kielbasa. So I could probably use the Smoked meat stabilizer where it sometimes calls for the Sodium Erythorbate? Or like we discussed, if use Sodium Erythorbate it could sit overnight if need be. What about the smoke meat stabilizer, is it faster acting like ECA and should be smoke immediately??



  • @yardapes11 @lamurscrappy @Jonathon @Austin
    1_1550947058460_CE56A3D4-AEC6-487D-8708-EBC6367A1DF9.jpeg 0_1550947058459_9E37575B-FEA0-45B9-9679-F227BF4765F0.jpeg summer sausage turned out great…did the hot water bath to finish


  • Walton's Employee

    @blackbetty61 Looks awesome, good job! I love it when people can figure out how to make a better product with information from this board!


  • Walton's Employee

    @Yardapes11 Yes, smoked meat stabilizer and sodium erythorbate perform similar functions and can be used somewhat interchangeably. Sodium erythorbate is such a small amount that it can be difficult to measure in small quantities when doing smaller batches, smoked meat stabilizer is a lot easier to use when making small batches.

    My recommendation is to always go to the smokehouse right away when using a cure accelerator but, as you said, Sodium Erythorbate doesnt present any known issues when being held overnight. As far as Smoked Meat Stabilizer goes I don’t think it would be advisable to hold it overnight as it is such a fast acting ingredient. With smoked meat stabilizer you can’t add it to brine because it can gas out so quickly so I would think there would be a danger of it converting too much of the Nitrite to Nitric Oxide if it was held overnight.

    So if you have sodium erythorbate just go with that!



  • Thanks Jonathon. Great input as usual. I usually go straight to smokehouse after placing in casing. Just good to know of options just in case. That clears up another question and gets me on my way!! @ Blackbetty61. Your summer sausage looks great!! good job. I think I will probably try the water-bath as well next time. As last batch took about extra 4-5 hours to get up to final temp. after the initial 4-5 hours of smoke.



  • @blackbetty61 you da man! That looks really good! Congrats on your great batch! As a side note with that cheese in there the sodium erthorbate will help keep the color really nice around the cheese as well. Sometimes the meat around the cheese will discolor but erthorbate fixes that! Keep up the great satisfing work!


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