Vacuum tumbling

  • Canning Dry Cured Sausage Primo Grills Team Blue Regular Contributors Sous Vide Power User

    Been seeing vacuum tumbling come up alot lately, but it is a process I haven’t used. I have multiple sources of vacuum, but not a tumbler. What are the variables that make this work? I would imagine that the vacuum pulled is related to the strength of the cell structure, Too high and I would guess that by breaking the cellular structure of the protein would make it mushy. How does the tumbling relate? I see on different recipes that it calls for specific RPM’s. Just how does the RPM’s effect the process. Does volume of liquid to protein ratio effect the process? Would appreciate any education on this. Thanks

  • Team Blue Power User Traeger Primo Grills PK Grills Canning

    On the Marinade Pro Express, you dont have pressure and speed options, just time. At least I think all the functions tumble at the same speed. It’s not an overly fancy machine, but it gets the job done.

  • Team Blue Dry Cured Sausage Admin Walton's Employee Canning

    Chef https://www.waltonsinc.com/equipment/vacuum-tumblers is a list of some good tumblers. The KMV 25 is what I use when I am doing something bigger than the Express Pro will work. The tumbler has paddles in it so as it spins it brings the meat up towards the top of the cannister (side) and then drops it. That impact energy loosens the muscle fibers. THat, along with the vacuum let your marinades/cures or anything else penetrate the meat more quickly and more thoroughly.

  • Regular Contributors

    I have a vacuum tumbler (identical to a Marinade Express Vacuum Tumbler) and I have read allot about them. From my experience they work, but not because of fancy cell structure science and vacuums. They work more on boring science like gravity and mechanical tenderizing. The vacumme just insures it all stays in while it tumbles… I have had great success with everything from chicken to jerkey to burgundy tri tip.

    Now the rub. I bought my unit used on ebay for $70. When I got it the vacuum tubes were shot and I was lucky enough to have the tubing to fix it. I asked for a $25 refund so I got $45 in mine plus some time tax. At $45 I love having it, but I wouldn’t spend the money for a brand new unit unless I had some specific processes I wanted to improve.

    So yes they work and cut down on time and increase the amount of marinade a piece of meat will take and also tenderizes at the same time. Anyone selling you cellular transposal molecular worpspeed machine has dressed up gravity bucket with vacuum seal.

  • Regular Contributors

    pr0wlunwoof said in Vacuum tumbling:

    I have a vacuum tumbler and I have read allot about them. From my experience they work, but not because of fancy cell structure science and vacuums. They work more on boring science like gravity and mechanical tenderizing. The vacumme just insures it all stays in while it tumbles… I have had great success with everything from chicken to jerkey to burgundy tri tip.

    Now the rub. I bought my unit used on ebay for $70. When I got it the vacuum tubes were shot and I was lucky enough to have the tubing to fix it. I asked for a $25 refund so I got $45 in mine plus some time tax. At $45 I love having it, but I wouldn’t spend more than $150 for a brand new unit which your not gonna get much for at that price.

    So yes they work and cut down on time and increase the amount of marinade a piece of meat will take and also tenderizes at the same time. Anyone selling you cellular transposal molecular worpspeed machine has dressed up gravity bucket with vacuum seal.

    You are wrong about vacuum not being a big part. Bottom line is you need a pump that pulls 20+ inHg to be really effective. And you need a tank that can handle said inHg. I don’t know much about the express pro, but being plastic, my opinion is it might crack at 29 inHg. I don’t have an express pro, so i am just guessing.

  • Regular Contributors

    mikemikemike

    I didn’t say Vacuum wasn’t a big part. Without it the whole operation would be everywhere instead of neatly in the bucket. Based on the reading and scientific experiments I have watched a vacuum at the levels of a home marination device do not facilitate the process like you would think, but the vacuum does make the operation of tumbling possible.

    These experiments were done under .5atm of vacuum which translates to 14.96 inch of mercury
    https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/pressuremarinade.html

    Make of it what you will.

    If you have some other articles that prove your point about 20+ inHg I would be willing to read them and maybe go as far as measuring the amount of vacuum my unit is taking or could take. The Marinade express says it goes to Maximum vacuum level of 26 in of mercury (Hg) so I would wager mine is in that vicinity.

    I will even go a step further if folks are interested. Walmart accidentally delivered me some chicken breasts on my last order so I would be willing to sacrifice them in the name of science. If folks are interested to do an experiment let me know what parameters would answer the most questions.

  • Regular Contributors

    pr0wlunwoof

    I don’t have any articles, since they are hard to find, or hard to understand. I can tell you from experience it works, and it works [censored] well if you can pull vacuum pressures in the 20-29inHg range. In just 20 minutes i had a Skirt steak double in size due to all the marinade pulling into the meat.

    Jonathon will probably have some more detailed info then what i can tell you.

  • Regular Contributors

    mikemikemike

    I feel like I am talking to my dad at this point. We both agree that it works and it works well, but I believe it has more to do with the tumbling than it does the vacuum.

    For instance if you took one of those vacuum marinators which function with only a lid and pull 26in of Mercury on it with your marinade and meat in it and sit it in the fridge next to an identical container with no vacuum you will get the same results.

    If you could create a tumbler that could seal without vacuum I believe you would get almost identical results as a tumbler with vacuum. As I stated before I believe the true benefit of the vacuum is to create a tight seal to enable a cleaner processing of the meat.

    Furthermore I think you would get more bang for you buck and probably less hassle by purchasing a quality injector to get marinade in meat. I just purchased the Walton’s Automatic Syringe Injector and will hopefully be using it this week to make canadian bacon.

  • Canning Dry Cured Sausage Primo Grills Team Blue Regular Contributors Sous Vide Power User

    pr0wlunwoof mikemikemike Would be a great experiment. I know I way over analyze things, but really would be a simple experiment. If it is a mechanical tenderizing and has lest to do with vacuum, then even an open tub with a slow spinning paddle would support that. Almost like a mixing bowl with a dough hook. If I have time, I can rig something up to emulate that action. I also have the capability to pull a vacuum on a stationary tub. I’m going to reserve my opinion untill I compare the two.

  • Regular Contributors

    Chef

    Yeah the tumble with vacuum vs tumble without vacuum is really the question. I guess I could vac seal a chicken breast in a bag with marinade and put it in the tumbler without a vacuum and then do one with just the tumbler and the chicken with vacuum. I honestly was thinking about using a bag from now on to alleviate the process of cleaning the tumbler and that would allow me to freeze the chicken with the marinade for bulk processing etc. I guess I first need to figure out how to measure the inches of mercury my vacuum pulls.

  • Team Blue Dry Cured Sausage Admin Walton's Employee Canning

    pr0wlunwoof One of the issues you would have with a non vacuumed tumble is that the solution might foam up and not be as effective. I don’t know if this is something that will happen on some cures or marinades and not others (depending on sugar/salt content) but it might be interesting to try out and see.

  • Regular Contributors

    Jonathon

    You are probably correct on that. I have added warm soapy water to the tumbler and put a vacuum on it and back on the tumbler and it foamed out to the point their was no more liquid movement. Open it back up and went back to a watery consistency.

    If I were to vac seal a bag of soapy water and put it in the tumbler though It might not have enough volume to expand to cause a foaming issue.

    Good point though.

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