• Team Blue

    I am going to make some ring bologna. I think I would like to try adding cold phosphate. Should I leave out sure gel if I add cold phosphate, or use them both?

    Also, should a ring bologna have particle definition or be an emulsified product? I have seen it both ways.

  • Veteran Sous Vide Canning

    Grimpuppy I don’t know about the phosphate. IMO old fashioned ring bologna is a courser grind.

  • Yearling

    Cold phosphate is something I have both used and emitted from bologna. They’re good both ways in my opinion so I would try both ways and see which you prefer. If you order cold phosphate and don’t like the bologna with it, you can use it in other luncheon meats or something like a ham.
    As far as particle definition, I personally find that a silkier emulsion akin to a hot dog is my preference for the meat and then I use pork back fat or the fat cap off a butt and dice it up into 1/4” cubes and after mixing the meat and seasoning together, I mix in the chilled fat cubes. This way the cure in the meat still gets plenty of surface contact to cure the ft pieces but the fat stays separated from the emulsified meat mixture.

  • Team Blue

    fallis10 said in Cold Phosphate:

    Cold phosphate is something I have both used and emitted from bologna. They’re good both ways in my opinion so I would try both ways and see which you prefer. If you order cold phosphate and don’t like the bologna with it, you can use it in other luncheon meats or something like a ham.
    As far as particle definition, I personally find that a silkier emulsion akin to a hot dog is my preference for the meat and then I use pork back fat or the fat cap off a butt and dice it up into 1/4” cubes and after mixing the meat and seasoning together, I mix in the chilled fat cubes. This way the cure in the meat still gets plenty of surface contact to cure the ft pieces but the fat stays separated from the emulsified meat mixture.

    Thanks for the info, should I still use sure gel if using the cold phosphate?

  • Yearling

    I would not use both. I will say that I am not saying this out of scientific research, but just in that both additions will help retain moisture levels and using both might end up being sort of overkill. Sure gel helps in the blending of proteins and lipids for a smoother final product. It all depends on your desired final product though. I personally don’t like any smear on my fat pieces that are tossed in. Some people want a commercialized and super emulsified product. To me, bologna should be smooth but not paste-like such as in hotdogs.

  • Team Orange Masterbuilt Big Green Egg Dry Cured Sausage Sous Vide Canning Power User

    Grimpuppy I am with fallis10 that I wouldn’t use both. I prefer a coarser grind than a fine emulsified product, but I do it both ways for others that don’t like the coarse. It is your product make it yours.

  • Team Blue Cast Iron Canning Dry Cured Sausage Masterbuilt

    Grimpuppy fine or coarse grinds are very subjective according to the one eating it. It is actually one of the reasons I like making my own so I can have it my way I don’t think it’s right or wrong either way. We could debate different grinds according to traditional versus modern, but that is still seems to more locality based.
    The wife likes fine, I like coarse.

    I would not add phosphate if using sure gel because suregel already has phosphate and too much can lead to soapy/off taste.

  • Team Orange Sous Vide Regular Contributors

    i run it thru the buffalo chopper with ice. Before the chopper, I just double ground it and it all tastes the same. I just prefer the pallet feel of the emulsified product. Its more like Troyers trail to me.

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