Thanks for the info. Agreed, you can’t cook the spoil out. In the tons of meat I’ve smoked, cured or grilled—I’ve never had any spoil ‘on the rack’–granted I’ve wrecked some, but never had it spoil. What brought this to mind was ground meat. I do a lot of pork butts and whole muscle meat that spends a fair amount of time the danger zone despite my efforts to get it through there within 4 hours but the smoke and heat on the outside is probably high enough to avoid it growing–IT, where little bacteris is to begin with, spends quite a bit of time there. Ground meat though, well let’s just say I am particularly cautious with. Again, thanks for the reassurance.

This question is relative to imitation bacon but could apply to anything that is cured. I’ve read about the dreaded DANGER ZONE of 40-140, and an associated 4 hour rule. When making imitation bacon where the recommended smoker temp is 170 after two one-hour periods of even lower temps, it would seem that there is little doubt that ground meat is going to spend more time in the danger zone than 4 hours to reach 140. Now, it finishes off at 160 at some point, so despite it being in the danger zone for quite awhile, does the 160 finish temp make it safe again? My imitation bacon contains pork and venison, no poultry. Does the curing process negate the risks of the danger zone timeframe? I’d like to know more. I’m not too concerned because we will fully cook the venison bacon again, well above 160, but would like to increase my knowledge. Thanks!

KenfromMI I can’t speak to the price difference but I switched from foil to peach/pink paper a few years ago. I really like the results I get–it’s a little messier on a pork butt due to the paper basically becoming an fat soaked rag, but the meat just seems better and I’m guessing it is because water vapor gets away but that flavorful fat still is retained. But to the original posters concern—crutching it can help in tough situations–paper or foil, either will do.

Adding a quick question…In looking around I find one recipe calling for 20% pump–uses cure accelerator and cold phosphate and then the whole muscle curing tutorial just uses cure and spice but calls for 10% pump. Why the difference?

May have narrowed this done to one word…creosote. The challenges of smoking meat in frigid weather. Did some bacon on my next smoke and while not as bad I could identify that same taste when I test fried an end off the slab. One thing I have learned over the years about creosote—it is amplified when it appears on cured meat. I started looking at my setup and I think two things led to this–1, using cabelas pellets for my smoke source and two, the cold ambient temperature in almost dead calm weather caused my stack to not draw as well–so a pellet known for high ash and incomplete burn caused some creosote rather than nice smoke.
I am still looking for advice and other ideas so feel free to jump in—would really like to master the ham making.
EDITED TO ADD…I use a homebuilt electric smoker with a PID controller. Only use pellets for smoke source, not heat.

Michael Hill I saw that too…so I took a tape…7 5/8 inch

ISULarry I’ve been checking out the same as you for bacon and have found that that the blade size does NOT increase the size of the carriage or the throw by much if any on most of the machines I’ve looked at. The biggest commercial machines that are out of my price range have a bit more throw but I have yet to find anything that will take a slab that is 10" or longer unless you roll or fold the slab bacon. Let me know if you find something.
I’ve drawn up the little design I have sent to a friend who can fabricate stainless that would be a “carriage on a carriage” that would effectively double the throw but would need a slicer where the carriage bolts on to the arm that slides so I didn’t have to completely reinvent the wheel.

Did my first whole muscle ham this week. Generally speaking if it doesn’t involve mixing meat I haven’t done it much. Started with a 15# bone in fresh ham. 10% pump which equated to 24 oz. of additional weight. My injection brine was 1/2 gallon distilled water, 1 lb country brown sugar cure, .4 oz (.025lb) california ham spice,–I used 1 ounce(light on purpose) of cold phosphate although calc shows 1.2 ounces cold phosphate should be right on for 15#. Cold phosphate was mixed in first. After injecting I weighed my left over injection brine and added an equal amount of water for a cover brine.
Into the bag/bucket and fridge–ham fully submerged in cover brine—5 days. I took more time in the smoker than expected to reach temp (12 hours) but overall, looks fantastic.
Now, the initial taste—oh so good, moisture right, saltiness right, sweetness right. 10 minutes later, a noticeable after taste.
I have a couple thoughts—never had the california ham spice (maybe a taste that doesn’t set right for me), shouldn’t have used injection brine and cut it (meant cold phosphate was in cover), got the calculations wrong (seems like it was right), smoke flavor problem.
Describing an aftertaste is impossible I guess, but if I do this again I will probably not use cold phospate–certainly not in cover brine.
Suggestions, ideas, corrections from anyone would be welcome.

KenfromMI yep, it will be messier but not like it pours out. I have a beach towel I wrap it in before going in the cooler, then I have my 'cooler blankets" I wrap it all up in. Cooler blankets as in cheap, whatever I have found over the years…most rummage sale finds. I wash the beach towel by hand with dawn dish soap if it gets grease on it. Not trying to convince anyone, to each their own, but you don’t know if you don’t try.

Adding a quick question…In looking around I find one recipe calling for 20% pump–uses cure accelerator and cold phosphate and then the whole muscle curing tutorial just uses cure and spice but calls for 10% pump. Why the difference?

KenfromMI I can’t speak to the price difference but I switched from foil to peach/pink paper a few years ago. I really like the results I get–it’s a little messier on a pork butt due to the paper basically becoming an fat soaked rag, but the meat just seems better and I’m guessing it is because water vapor gets away but that flavorful fat still is retained. But to the original posters concern—crutching it can help in tough situations–paper or foil, either will do.

High temperature cheese?

Been there, done that, and more often than not with a smaller butt. I don’t know if those smaller cuts just lack the thermal mass to evenly get it up there but whenever I hit a stall, although I’ve only had a few stall at anything less than 150, that last for more than two hours I just go straight to the pink butcher paper wrap and 225 to 250. Once the temp starts that nice upward line again you can back the heat off if you are worried about drying out, but I trust the butcher paper to stop that. It goes long, especially if you go for a long rest time like me (2 hours plus). It will work out next, just try a bigger one.

So with Covid reducing the size our Christmas I’m going to make my first attempt at a whole muscle ham. I’ve watched the whole muscle videos and I believe I’ve got that down. Normally, we have a ham that is cold and we just bag it and shove it in the oven until it reaches 145–store bought it seems it is already cured and ‘fully cooked’ so we are just reheating, add a glaze at the end–easy peasy. Now though, I watch the videos, read the posts and almost all tell me to cool it down, refrigerate and…then what? Is it ready to eat right off the smoker, while still hot? Or should I, or can I refrigerate and cook it like a store bought ham later. Can I do all of the prep and freeze it for cooking whole later?
Honestly I’m hoping you all tell me to brine, smoke and freeze—throw it in the oven on the holiday. Don’t really want to be doing this the night/morning before, but will if I have to. Please let me know. Thanks in advance for the extra post-smoking tips!